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Phoneutria reidyi


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#1 Guest_PhoNEutria_*

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 01:53 AM

My juvenile Phoneutria.

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#2 BrianS

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 07:10 AM

Nice looking species. Where is it native from

#3 Guest_PhoNEutria_*

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 07:34 AM

Nice looking species. Where is it native from


Venezuela, Peru, Brazil, Guyana

#4 Black Widow

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 08:37 PM

If you haven't told me it was a juvi I would have thought it was full grown.

#5 chaim

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 06:21 AM

Great spider!!!
please keep up the pics, love to see more.
Is it your first Phoneutria spp. you raise? I understood its a bit tricky keeping them alive nad you need to know where they exectly come from, that slings from the same species, but from differnt locations need other care.
am trying to find out as much as possible out Phoneutria, hoping to own some soon...

#6 Stefan2209

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 06:44 AM

I understood its a bit tricky keeping them alive nad you need to know where they exectly come from, that slings from the same species, but from differnt locations need other care.


Hi,

this is, of course, in regard of the here covered species P. reidyi total [edit]

I´m raising as well slings from a female from French - Guyana as i do with slings from a female that originated from the Peruvian Amazon and can clearly state that there are no such differences.

I you´re are referring to another species, P. nigriventer, with that statement you should check the latest revision and may perhaps find the solution to this former "mystery".

By the way: to get back to your comment: maybe you will enlighten all of us with your ideas about how you´d keep specimen of the very same species but from different locations to "keep them alive"?

Greetings,

Stefan

P.S. For the mere fun of it:

P. nigriventer, Paraguay, cb juvi
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Same species, younger specimen, note that the colouration is in this stage resembling the adult - colouration of P. keyserlingi
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P. keyserlingi, Sao Paolo, Brazil, adult female with fake sac
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P. reidyi, cb juvi specimen, originally of a blood line from French - Guyana
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Same species, adult wc female (DEAD!) rom Peru, just to give an impression of size
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P. boliviensis, adult wc female from Peru, close up
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S.

Edited by BrianS, 06 August 2007 - 12:55 PM.
language


#7 chaim

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 11:50 AM

I understood its a bit tricky keeping them alive nad you need to know where they exectly come from, that slings from the same species, but from differnt locations need other care.


Hi,

this is, of course, in regard of the here covered species P. reidyi total bullshit:

I´m raising as well slings from a female from French - Guyana as i do with slings from a female that originated from the Peruvian Amazon and can clearly state that there are no such differences.

I you´re are referring to another species, P. nigriventer, with that statement you should check the latest revision and may perhaps find the solution to this former "mystery".

By the way: to get back to your comment: maybe you will enlighten all of us with your ideas about how you´d keep specimen of the very same species but from different locations to "keep them alive"?

Greetings,

Stefan


Am so sorry Stevan, so sorry, ofcours, so stupid of me saying some thing like that!!!
I based it on something some one told me... But I have a lot on my mind so I mix sometime information up a bit, like scientific spider names for example...
This is the info I had in the back of my head when I asked my question on raising Phoneutria slings, hoping for more first hand experions...

There´s not too much written about the detailed keeping of Phoneutria cause to two reasons to my own opinion:

With adult specimen there´s not much difference to keeping other ctenids like Cupiennius or even Ancylometes so why write a detailed fact sheet.

With young specimen there may be major differences that would indeed be noteworthy. Problem here is that there are just very few guys around that are even aware about this and most of them don´t care about writing stuff together for other people.
I started a very detailed thread about the whole genus including the actual available species (in europe) in the AB´s that will cover such facts.
To make it complete, however, i have to just evaluate that facts which means raising of a bigger amount of specimen of the individual species from sling to adult. Of course this takes time...
To make things even more difficult there may be important differences in keeping and especially raising of specimen of the very same species depending from which location it´s originating from. An example for this is P. nigriventer: take the Sao Paolo specimen and the specimen from Paraguay, the development shows major differences in many regards.

With other species like P. reidyi i have at least the impression for now that this isn´t true for this species, as i´m raising slings from French - Guyana and Peru as well and there are NO differences so far.


I had the info you given kept in mind and thought it over, but I forgot about the last line, where youre telling it PROBELY isnt the case with P. reidyi.
But, sorry again!
I realy hope this is the "enlightenment" you were hoping for...

And for this:

I you´re are referring to another species, P. nigriventer, with that statement you should check the latest revision and may perhaps find the solution to this former "mystery".

Haved had much time for info tracking on spiders lately, there is so a a little change I mist something here and there.
So again on that, my apologies.
I have priorities above spiders, I hope you'll understand that...
Grtz,
Chaim

#8 Black Widow

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Posted 06 August 2007 - 08:03 PM

So I assume that this species varies in color? I guessed by looking at the photos.

#9 Guest_wh6fxe_*

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 02:19 PM

Mmmhhhmmmm... Pretty spider. I looking for Phoneutria spp. in Europe and nobody wont sell spider this species.

#10 Stefan2209

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Posted 10 August 2007 - 08:43 PM

Hi there,

apparently there are some differences between "being interested" in Phoneutria...

The information written from my side and cited by yours was correct when it had been written but isn´t anymore by now due to the latest genus revision of Martins and Bertani.

As i said: check the paper.

P. reidyi was NEVER mentioned from my side to show differences in specimens from different origins.

No Phoneutria up for sell? It´s time for raising and just THEN will start breeding again. Next species from my side will be P. keyserlingi but those will not be out for sell anyway due to their toxicity.

If you put out major - amounts for cash maybe you´ll be able to get hold of bigger specimen even now, however such would of course be quite expensive.
(And note: this is NO hidden offer from my side, i refer to the general market in Europe here.)

#11 Guest_wh6fxe_*

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Posted 11 August 2007 - 03:35 AM

Hi,
Mayby you tell me who have Phoneutria spp. for sale and will be able to send for Poland:)??

:D

#12 Stefan2209

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Posted 24 September 2007 - 04:16 AM

Hi,

some more...

Phoneutria keyserlingi (Sao Paolo, Brazil), cb subadult / adult male
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Phoneutria reidyi (Oyapok, French - Guyana), cb juvenile
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Greetings,

Stefan

#13 chaim

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Posted 25 September 2007 - 07:36 AM

Great pics Stefan!!!

Realy like those of the P. keyserlingi male.

The reidyi pics... :blink:
Nice!

Edited by chaim, 25 September 2007 - 07:37 AM.


#14 Stefan2209

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Posted 25 September 2007 - 08:28 AM

Great pics Stefan!!!

Realy like those of the P. keyserlingi male.

The reidyi pics... :blink:
Nice!


Hi Chaim,

thanks!

I have to admit i´m quite happy how these pics turned out, as P. keyserlingi is rather difficult to shoot, let alone to snap pics of that male specimen...
A quite nice looking species to my opinion.

However, that´s it for the good points: rather difficult to raise, rather difficult to maintain in captivity and definitely the most dangerous species i´m actually keeping: highly toxic like P. nigriventer but this species is even more skittish and unpredictable.
While P. nigriventer usually shows pretty fast if they´re annoyed, this is not always the case with those P. keyserlingi´s. Sometimes they show thread displays in advance. Sometimes everything seems pretty fine and nevertheless the specimens will suddenly attack or even jump at you without any prior warning.

I´m quite happy i have now "breeding material" at hands here, however i´m definitely NOT looking forward to breed this species. :-/
Anyway, there´re aren´t too many specimens of this species left in Europe, so i better get going. Next weekend it´s gonna be mating time here...
Better wave your goodbyes to that pictured male, i really don´t expect him to survive that mating attempt and all i hope for is that he´ll be able to do his thing BEFORE he gets killed.

In regard of that P. reidyi pics:

I "grew up" with species like P. nigriventer and especially P. fera.
In comparison to those P. reidyi is just ridiculous calm. However, i wouldn´t advise to generally treat this species like pictured and from a certain size on i´d be pretty careful myself to deal with them in such a manner.
While these are calm, the baddest time i ever had with any Phoneutria specimen was just with an adult P. reidyi female guarding her sac.
I´ve "stolen" sacs from P. keyserlingi, P. nigriventer and P. boliviensis, all were to some degree protective of her sacs, however, none was comparable to that P. reidyi female, really amazing how pissed off such a rather peaceful species can get.

Greetings,

Stefan

#15 chaim

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Posted 25 September 2007 - 09:01 AM

I have to admit i´m quite happy how these pics turned out, as P. keyserlingi is rather difficult to shoot, let alone to snap pics of that male specimen...
A quite nice looking species to my opinion.


Nice specimen indeed!!!
Taking pics... with glass at all sides and spiders reacting on flahlish...
pretty hard yes, (well my C. salei does, giving my some truble getting a good shot of that girl, well I aint that good taking close ups :wacko: )

In regard of that P. reidyi pics:

I "grew up" with species like P. nigriventer and especially P. fera.
In comparison to those P. reidyi is just ridiculous calm. However, i wouldn´t advise to generally treat this species like pictured and from a certain size on i´d be pretty careful myself to deal with them in such a manner.
While these are calm, the baddest time i ever had with any Phoneutria specimen was just with an adult P. reidyi female guarding her sac.
I´ve "stolen" sacs from P. keyserlingi, P. nigriventer and P. boliviensis, all were to some degree protective of her sacs, however, none was comparable to that P. reidyi female, really amazing how pissed off such a rather peaceful species can get.

Greetings,

Stefan


I noticed with my P. boliviensis how calm theys spiders can be...
When I bought her she wass eating a cricket, when I had to drive 1,5 houres back home she was just not to be bothered, eating quite at ease.
That makes me realy respect those spiders.

I´ve "stolen" sacs from P. keyserlingi, P. nigriventer and P. boliviensis, all were to some degree protective of her sacs, however, none was comparable to that P. reidyi female, really amazing how pissed off such a rather peaceful species can get.


:blink:
Spiders can be up to some surprice..
I decided to expect everything to be posible
Especially with Phoneutria

#16 Black Widow

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Posted 25 September 2007 - 10:21 AM

Pretty venomous spider! :D Just how many species are there?

#17 Stefan2209

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Posted 27 September 2007 - 09:28 AM

Hi there,

@ Chaim

quite interesting report of yours:
I´m actually keeping some 15 different species of Ctenidae and have taken pics of most, if not all of them. Reactions to flashlights however, were really, really rare at all.
Even with rather skittish species like the pictured P. keyserlingi, the flash has never been a problem here.

Only species which instantly comes to my mind if we talk about direct reaction to using a flash was, erouniously, the otherwise totally calm Ctenidae spp. Kenya.
It´s really difficult to bother these spiders at all, however, if pics are taken with a flash used, they will react instantly: no fast movements, but they apparently not only sense it, but recognize to some degree where it comes from, as all my specimen seeked shelter after snapping just one - two pics.

I´m not that deep into Cupiennius spp. at all, so i don´t have that much references with members of this genus, but i´m actually keeping several C. salei juvi´s, some slings of an undetermined species and will soon get hold of several breeding specimen of C. getazi again, so i´ll just give it a try and see if those will all react the same.

P. boliviensis is indeed another quite calm species, though to my opinion P. reidyi is topnotch when it comes to genus Phoneutria and calm behaviour.
In Peru i was able to collect P. boliviensis using just bare hands, but one needs to be really careful and sensitive with them, so, here too, i wouldn´t advise to try this.

Speaking about reflections in glass...
I don´t like it. And i´ve found a way to overcome it: Shoot without glass between you und your subject:

Phoneutria keyserlingi (Sao Paolo, Brazil), adult cb female
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This is the female counterpart of the pictured male. Mating attempt will take place over the weekend.

That pic is shot without any glass between my lense and the spider. Distance between was maybe 5cm (2").

While the pic (and my writing here, the pic is new) clearly shows that these aren´t "killers" at all, if you know what you do, it needs to be stressed:

DON´T TRY THIS AT HOME!
You might easily get tagged and this won´t light up your day.

@ Black Widow

Actually there are eight valid species recognized in the genus Phoneutria.
Last genus revision (Martins & Bertani, 2007) had just been published two months ago, so many sites and people aren´t aware of this by now.
The revision of Brescovit & Simo from 2001 recognized just 5 valid species. PLATNICK still lists this revision account.

New / revalidated species are:

P. eickstedtae sp. nov.
P. keyserlingi (revalidated)
P. pertyi (revalidated)

It needs to be stressed, that Martins and Bertani concentrated just on the "non - Amazonian species", so that all Amazon species (P. boliviensis, P. fera and P. reidyi) haven´t been revised at all.

Personally, i expect more changes and additions here in the future.

Greetings,

Stefan

#18 chaim

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Posted 27 September 2007 - 12:54 PM

Hey Stefan,

well, I have to say that my C. salei is to most skittish spider I ever had.
Just like P. nigriventer usually shows pretty fast if they´re annoyed, my C. salei is pretty fast in getting away.
My others Cupiennius spp. are not that skittish ad all and havent had any problems taking pics of them with flashlight.
(ore I just need to be even more carefull taking pics of her...)

P. boliviensis is indeed another quite calm species, though to my opinion P. reidyi is topnotch when it comes to genus Phoneutria and calm behaviour.
In Peru i was able to collect P. boliviensis using just bare hands, but one needs to be really careful and sensitive with them, so, here too, i wouldn´t advise to try this.


What wass your first thought when handeling P. boliviensis? (dont know, was that your first time handling phoneutria spp. with bare hands?)

Speaking about reflections in glass...
I don´t like it. And i´ve found a way to overcome it: Shoot without glass between you und your subject:

I had to with the pics I took from my P. boliviensis, allthough she is in a plastic container at the moment.
Lifted up the lid and took the pics...(with the camera lens in front of the hole that was created) have to admid, I wass quite nervous doing something like that with Phoneutria spp. :blink:
I didnt thought of that as fun at all.

Ps: stefan, did you wrote something about your journey to Peru?

#19 Black Widow

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Posted 27 September 2007 - 02:13 PM

Stefan: Thanks for the info on the number of species.

#20 Stefan2209

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Posted 29 September 2007 - 06:26 AM

Hi,

exactly that skittisnhess of those Cupeinnius is what´s bugging me off most about this genus!

However, with my last Cupiennius i had some minor different observations: while all species proved to be extremely skittish while slings, my adult C. salei female was rather calm.
This wasn´t ever true for my C. getazi´s, though, regardless of their sex, skittish as hell, no matter if adults or slings. Beautiful species, but to my opinion just extremely annoying by behaviour, i definitely prefer my Phoneutria.

With C. coccineus i´m a bit careful to give a definite comment here, as i´ve just once kept one single specimen out of this species that turned out to be a male.
The specimen was still skittish as an adult, but i wouldn´t hang this too high, for a male specimen...

What i thought grabbing that P. boliviensis? Several things:

- Damn, that peruvian biologist secreaming at me IS right, i´m indeed standing in a damn ant nest.

- Hey, i don´t even get tagged! Think about this.

- Let´s get the hell outta this ant nest!

That was it.
I had been three days and nights out in the Amazon trying to locate Phoneutria, without any success. Finally, being already on the way back to the city i stumbled across that young specimen of P. boliviensis and hadn´t anything on my mind but to get this spider, no matter what.
Sat just on the ground and tried to hide in leaf litter. Was a bit tricky to get hold of her but i could just finally grab her with some leaf she hold onto. Secured that leaf with my hand, my thumb one - two centimetres away from that spider. That was all.
I tried to not touch her frontlegs, but aside from that, i saw no reason why she should attack? With grabbing the whole thing this proofed to be true. In finally just pushed her into a vial and that was the capture. Not a too big deal.

Guess, capturing really large specimen of P. fera, P. keyserlingi or P. nigriventer should be more interesting.

(However, by now i´m really more worried about those ANTS. Unbelievable. And people here are concerned about Phoneutria... Sheesh...)

No, i didn´t write a report of Peru anywhere, as i took this just for a trip to get my feet wet. Gonny pay FG a visit next year with a more detailed intent for that journey.
If all should work out i may possibly come up with a report about that one.

Gonna mate that P. keyserlingi´s later on in the day, press all thumbs you have. I have a really bad premonition about this one.

Greetings,

Stefan




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