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Rear Fanged Venomous


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#1 Guest_SaturnoAscensao_*

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 12:49 AM

I'm interested in getting some more rear fanged venomous snakes. I don't plan on getting any real venomous reptiles in the near future.... maybe someday though.

So far I have a giant Madagascar hognose snake (Leioheterodon madagascariensis). Well it's not really mine, it's for sale at the place I work. Hopefully it won't sell really soon and I'll be able to see it grow and study its behaviors or take it home. I'll have one of my own eventually.

I'd like to get a lyre snake & a mangrove snake sometime. The problem is I can find no information on the internet on these snakes... I've been looking high and low and for a very long time. There is also very little information on their "venom".

I was looking at hognose.com but only half their main page works for some reason.... I don't know what's going on.

Could anyone reccommend any websites or forum links or people that know about these reptiles? Are there any books specifically on rear fanged snakes or hognose snakes?

There is a two book set at Barnes & Noble called "Venomous Reptiles of the Western Hemisphere" for $150... I'm thinking of buying it. I'm very interested in venomous snakes... I'd like to take some classes. Any reccommendations?

Ah well enough of my rambling...

Thanks.

#2 Beardo

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 05:07 AM

If you're thinking about a Mangrove....think very. very hard lol. I had an adult female Sulawsi Mangrove (Boiga dendrophilia gemmicincta) she was no picnic to keep. She was without a doubt the most aggressive, evil, person ahting snake I've ever come across.

They are often very hard to get feeding on rodents and 99% of the specimens out there are wild caught.

If you are serious about a Mangrove, and if you have any questions just let me know.

#3 BrianS

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 06:26 AM

If you get a Hognose snake get the Western. I have heard the Easterns dont do well in captivity.
Another snake you might consider is a Vine snake. They are rear fanged. I dont know much about them myself but Matt (Furryscaly) has one and perhaps can shed more light on them.

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 09:34 AM

Yup, I have an asian vine snake (Ahaetulla prasina). I've heard they're difficult to keep, but I really can't see any evidence to back that up. Mine's been doing fine. They get about 6 feet long, but their necks stay about as thick as a pencil. Mine tolerates handling, and has only struck at me once, but that's because I was handling her a lot that day for presentations at a local high school. I read their venom is pretty mild. The bite would hurt, and in a bad situation, it may turn red and blister, but I don't believe there's ever been a serious case. In any case, a quick bite wouldn't get any venom into your sysytem anyway, she'd have to chew on you a little to get those rear fangs into your skin. The biggest downside to vine snakes is so far I've had no luck getting her to eat mice. However, with her extremely thin body, 1 live anole every 2 weeks seems to be plenty for her. Plus she's only 3 feet long.

#5 Beardo

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 01:41 PM

The main problem with alot of cool rear-fanged snakes is that they are wild caught and hard to acclimate to captivity.

I suggest looking into False Water Cobras. They are bred much more commonly and are easier to keep. Bill Gillingham of www.snakemuseum.com breeds them and has babies for sale right now.

#6 Gary Orner

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 10:14 PM

I see a few problems here and I would like to touch on them. Do not take this as an attack...............................................

A hot is a hot. Rear fang Venomous are "Real venomous". There are Rear Fang Snakes that will drop you dead just as a front fanged snake. Take the Boomslang and there are Boigas that will do the same.

The Mangrove Venom is pretty nasty stuff but they lack the delivery system other venomous snakes have. Their fangs are small also. They also have a very small yield so a bite should not result in any harm. This does not take away from their strike range or painfull bite. An adult Mang can and will strike up to 5 foot my 7 footer will not back down and is a mean mean snake.

Asian Vines
Ahaetulla prasina seem to do the best in captivity and I have switched mine to F/T mice and pinkies. My Female did give birth to 4 slugs though but she has only been in the country maybe 7 months I did not know whe was gravid. She ate the whole time too.

But when you lose that respect for a rear fang hot is when you are hit with a bite. Rear fang snakes are real venomous snakes. Did you know the Boomslang was thought to be harmless becuase it was rearfang untill it killed a man?

So please remember a hot is a hot and all deserve the respect.

What are your main interests in hots? What species catches your eye? What are the reasons you would like to get hots? and do you have the proper tools?

It is a step that you have to really think about.


Another tip. The most dangerous hot is the one on the other end of your hook

Edited by Gary Orner, 08 September 2005 - 10:19 PM.


#7 Gary Orner

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 10:16 PM

The main problem with alot of cool rear-fanged snakes is that they are wild caught and hard to acclimate to captivity.

I suggest looking into False Water Cobras. They are bred much more commonly and are easier to keep. Bill Gillingham of www.snakemuseum.com breeds them and has babies for sale right now.

If you go with the FWC watch it around feeding time. Once they get the scent of prey they go nuts. They must have the best feeding responce of any snake I know of.

Hogs are great though for the person wanting a rear fang snake

#8 okherp

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 07:15 AM

I have a lot of venomous snakes in captivity, including a western hognose (Heterodon nasicus). I have had both the eastern and western and both are equally difficult to keep. Making the transition from toads and frogs to pink mice is the most difficult thing about keeping them, but scenting works great. The H. nasicus is more commonly available in pet stores, though. I would make sure they are eating rodents before purchasing one, especially this close to autumn.

#9 Beardo

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 08:22 AM

I can say from experience that you do NOT want to get tagged by an adult Mangrove. My adult female Sulawesi got me the last day I had her....easily the worst bite I've ever had. It was like getting chomped on by a 6 foot venomous ATB lol.

#10 BrianS

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 09:59 AM

David, What kind of symptoms did you have from the bite and how long did it last?

#11 Beardo

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 10:06 AM

The worst part was the huge puncture wounds lol....it bled like I had been stabbed lol.

The venom was not bad at all...my hand swelled up a bit and went numb for about 1/2 an hour. I also experienced some slight muscle spasms in my hand.

I was pulling teeth out of my skin for a month after the bite also lol.

#12 BrianS

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 10:11 AM

Very interesting :lol:

I didnt really have any idea of what a Mangrove bite would be like and STILL dont want to find out like you did..lol

#13 Gary Orner

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 01:44 PM

In all honesty the mangrove has fairly small groved fangs. The bleeding is a result of the venom also. It is a 3 finger toxin simular to some elipids. I keep telling people their venom is nasty stuff they just do not have the yield or delivery system like other snakes.

I have seen a mang kill a mouse just as fast as my waglers did.................... But also my asian vine can kill a mouse pretty fast(well pinkie)

THe thing about the mang is they do nto bite and retract but they bite and hold and chew. You should NEVER free handle a mang cuase their strike range is so large. You could be tailing and they will come back at your face. I have had it done to me but I also had a hook.

They are not slow at all. They can latch onto anything and use it to help them do what ever they want to.

Hots on my list to get are Boomers and I am on a mission to get a pair to trio of the most common Boigas.


But also as stated WC mangs have to be in the top ten of tough WC species to make live. I lost over 40% of mine. and one has been taken away from the Q room as it is not looking well. She is still eating though. But losing weight. Internal Parisites!!!! She has been treated once but that does not always do it. So she will get it again and stay in the 2nd Q room.

My mang eggs are looking good but the one is dead. But it sits by itself just incase lol. It looks as if I have 9 good eggs that should be hatching soon. My venomous breeding has been awesome. Baby pigs and baby mangs. Only if the vines were not born dead.

I have a person that says he has a par of waglers he wants to give me for hosting. I will be looking at them soon. He also said the female has yet to eat for him. We shall see

#14 Gary Orner

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 09:11 PM

Posted Image

#15 Guest_chaotic9_*

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 10:10 PM

I've kept a False Water Cobra and while it's feeding response is strong, i haven't had the experience of what i've read online. he didn't go crazy when there were rodents thawing. he didn't try to fly out of the enclosure when i approached with a rat. i opened the enclosure, held the rat in front of him, and he took it. he was very handleable, never aggressive towards me, and never offered to bite.

My cateyed is a totally different story. She is absolutely nuts during feeding time and after she's eaten, she'll strike at anything and everything that walks into the room. She has got to be one of the coolest snakes i've ever kept.

#16 Guest_Jenny_*

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 03:46 AM

Jeez Gary... it's a wonder youhave any time at all.
Beautiful snake and good luck with the eggs.

How ome the eggs were born dead on the others? Just bad eggs?

#17 Gary Orner

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 06:39 AM

Time is a huge issue for me. I can go sometimes without posting for days. lol

The reason the egg was dead. Could be a hundred things. It happens with some snakes and with this girl being imported this year could have something to do with it.

Also remember guys just becuase you have a snake that does not do what others do does not mean it is the norm. I have a mang that does not offer to bite. He is actually really calm. I have pigmies that I swear would not bite. They will take mice off tongs so calmly. But I know this is not the norm.

I have breeder ball pythons that will rip you face off if givin the chance. but again it is not the norm.

When dealing with hots there are a few things you should follow.

1) MAKE SURE IT IS LEGAL TO OWN WHERE YOU LIVE!
--If not do not get it. You will only hurt the hobby. If you own a hot and know it is against the law then you are one if the bad guy IMO. As you can directly effect the hobby.

2) NEVER FREE HANDLE
--Just not worth it. No matter how cool you think it is or it makes you feel.

3) DO NOT BE A SHOW OFF
--nothing more needs said about that.

Edited by Gary Orner, 10 September 2005 - 07:34 AM.


#18 Duke

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 07:21 AM

Fantastic reading and very solid advice here.

Gary your list of rules for hots is very good!!!!!

#19 Gary Orner

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 07:35 AM

Thanks bro. I love the mangrove snake. I read anything I can on them and I record everything I can on them. Down to how they react to different meals. I could talk mangs all day and not get tired of it.

#20 Duke

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Posted 10 September 2005 - 07:40 AM

Wow!!! You know its really cool that there are people out there who have these and do record information like that!!

Its a lost art any more and its something very important to any hobby of a venomous calibur!!!




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